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In this episode of the show, we welcome artist and photographer Karen J. Lloyd. She talks with Inclusive Arts Vermont’s Heidi Swevens about coming to terms with incorporating disability into her identity, how Lyme Disease changed her life, and a painting by Lloyd that is part of Inclusive Arts Vermont’s CYCLES exhibit: an image of a red-and-gold phoenix on a tranquil blue background.
Karen graduated from the University of Vermont in 2004, with departmental honors. The CYCLES exhibit has been on tour around Vermont for the past year, and is currently in residence at CDCI’s offices in Mann Hall on the University of Vermont campus, in Burlington, Vermont.
A full transcript appears below.
Heidi Swevens: Hello, and my name is Heidi Swevens. I have been asked to do a guest host for the Green Mountain Disability Stories Podcast and I’m thrilled to be here with artist Karen Lloyd. So, for access, my name is Heidi Swevens, I use she/they pronouns. I’m the director of Community Partnerships and Exhibitions with Inclusive Arts Vermont, and I’m also a disabled artist and really thrilled to be here. I am a 50 something white human with blue eyes and pale skin and short brown hair. Today I’m wearing a turquoise turtleneck sweater and there’s a soft focus behind me and I’m really excited to be in conversation with Karen Lloyd.
So, Karen, please introduce yourself.
Karen Lloyd: Hi, I’m Karen Lloyd and I also, I use she/her pronouns and I am a 42-year-old fair skinned woman with very long strawberry blonde hair and green eyes. I’m wearing glasses and a turquoise heart necklace and a teal sweater. I am sitting in my living room today in Winooski.
Heidi: Wonderful. And so the Green Mountain Disability Stories Podcast is about stories of people with disabilities in Vermont, and today we’re going to be talking with you about, we’ll start with a piece that’s in the CYCLES exhibition, phoenix, and then we’ll just see where the conversation takes us. So, Karen, if you don’t mind, just tell the audience a little bit about your piece that’s in CYCLES, “Phoenix”.
Karen: Thanks, Heidi. So, my piece, “Phoenix Rising” is an acrylic on canvas and the original is actually is an eight by 10. It was the first piece I’d done in a while and it was a little over a month before my 40th birthday, so sort of the precipice of sort of that change of a new decade. And so a lot of self-reflection happening and I hadn’t done actually more full-sized painting in a while, but that one just hit me so hard and it really wanted to come out once that idea was planted. And so I worked on it for all the weeks basically leading up to my 40th birthday and finished it just before my birthday, which meant a lot to me to sort of have that timing. It really felt like the phoenix is this mythological creature that sort of represents rebirth and transitions and overcoming and persevering and being a disabled artist now for over a decade, it has felt like a symbol to me to look to even for my own inspiration.
So, I think sometimes people think as an artist we’re putting out to the world, but it’s also been my own inspiration back to me and it felt like a symbol of everything I’ve overcome, having Lyme Disease actually starting when I was a UVM student and the challenges that happened even just to get to graduation in a good way. And even then persevering and graduating with honors, but that being very difficult and taking a lot more effort. And then going through the past 20 years really of struggling with all the effects of Lyme Disease and what came through that as fibromyalgia and the migraines and the brain fog and the fatigue. And so hitting that 40 and looking both back and forward of what is the rest of my life going to look like?
And at the same time I was just about to contemplate the big decision of divorce.
So, it was also a really big life stage change in my life as I was starting “Phoenix” and now I can look back two years later and I am officially divorced. And so having that painting of mine to even look through during the past couple years now, it has really sort of helped when it’s been difficult.
And remembering the phoenix actually it rises from its own ashes, so there is that fire and it might be pretty intense at times and seem really dark and not so fun, but in the end the phoenix does come back and it rises and it’s beautiful and it’s strong and it really is something that I’ve held onto. This is sort of where it all began.
You can see I have — it’s actually just like a TV tray table — by my glass sliding door with a view of my garden and beyond. Because my garden is a big inspiration to me. It’s my happy place when it’s not snowing in Vermont. And so from like roughly May to October, that tends to be a place I hang out a lot.
I also have a few reference photos on my table of real peacocks and I did that so that I could see just the way they move, the way their feathers go and get an idea of how does a real bird have motion. And I wanted that to sort of be loosely reflected in my phoenix. It was kind of wild: the way I like, drew the phoenix is I didn’t even really draw.
Heidi: Nice.
Karen: And this is just another more close-up of, so you can see the various shades of blues and teals, a little bit of the purple of the background and lots of movement and then just the most basic outline of the phoenix, and it was kind of wild. The way I drew the phoenix is I didn’t even really draw it. I painted the outline solid. And so that was even an interesting process because I didn’t draw just a thin outline and then go from there. I sort of painted its body, if you will, solid, if that makes sense. And then built up from there.
Heidi: I was just going to say, as you’re describing this, I’m hearing you just also articulate and say how different this process was for you, which is maybe some version of a newness in the process for creating it, which may or may not be relevant. So, I didn’t mean to interrupt you even though I did, but I wanted to [inaudible 00:06:40]-
Karen: That’s okay.
Heidi: … it escapes me. Yeah.
Karen: I never even really thought about it before, but that’s such a good point of, there’s actually quite a lot about the phoenix that was me trying new things and it just working out that way. It wasn’t like I necessarily even set out initially to, okay, let’s see how many different things we can do. But I guess looking back now, that’s true, there was a lot to this process even starting with the Sharpie drawing, which is not how I normally begin a piece of work.
And I think I learned a lot from this piece. And even the drive to make it was interesting where because I had so much going on in my personal life contemplating divorce that we were really serious. I wasn’t really feeling a lot of art mojo in general.
And yet with this piece, it just so badly wanted to be born, it wasn’t going to take no for an answer, it has to come out of me, which as an artist feels really amazing because we don’t always have that drive to such a level and I certainly don’t. And there’s times where we have to just push through with something, but it was the opposite where I could hardly wait to get to work on it again, even if it was at 2:00 in the morning. And so it was a lot of hours, but really happened through about a month really of time, which for me is actually pretty fast because I’m a slow maker when it comes to original art like paintings.
Heidi: Yeah, I feel like we’re getting this really intimate view of your process, so thank you for that.
Karen: I know we’ve talked about this in the past, Heidi, when we’ve done the networkings with Inclusive Arts is that it ended up through the process and by the end of it feeling like a self-portrait. And that was sort of amazing too because obviously I know I’m not a phoenix, I’m not a bird, and yet it ended up becoming sort of a symbol of myself is what it felt like. And so each little line really was a labor of love. And so even though it was very meticulous, it wasn’t in a bad way, if that makes sense, as much work as it was to do it, I was glad to.
Heidi: For this piece, I am curious if the art, the creative process, disability stuff, is there any parallel, and maybe you could describe, you talked about the blues and adding to the background to take away from some of the body of the phoenix. Are there more visual details that you might add in now for the listeners as well?
Karen: Yeah, so I think it does sort of even correlate with being a disabled artist of having to think of new ways of doing things, can’t always rely on maybe what worked in the past. So, for myself, when I look back, I always feel like I had two lives in a way. So, pre-Lyme and after Lyme. I first got Lyme disease when I was 19, and so I was actually in the middle of being a college student at UVM when that happened. And it was the summer of 2002 and I was working at a horse stable because back then I was really strong and healthy and had a lot of energy. And even though I was a smaller person, I was very strong. And so mucking stalls wasn’t an issue and I loved being able to be outside.
I loved being able to take out the horses and having time with them and then all of a sudden everything changed and getting to the barn one day and I could barely even pick up a pitchfork that was empty.
Just the pitchfork itself was so heavy to me all of a sudden. And that was the end of an era for me.
I never regained how I used to be and only got worse for quite a long time. And so there’s been a lot of having to relearn how to be in the world and changing even my identity, if you will, how I view myself inside and having different limitations. And there’s also, you could say on the flip side, there’s other blessings too of having more empathy that unless you’ve experienced something you can never fully understand what someone else has gone through.
And there’s no way I would’ve really understood what it was like to have a chronic illness or disability if I hadn’t gone through what I’ve gone through. And so I think in some ways it does enrich our lives too. And having that ability to understand more people than I would’ve ever had if I had lived my whole life being really healthy and always being able to rely on myself. And with this phoenix wing, it was like a part of it was broken off temporarily, it’s literally missing and chunk away and having to reimagine a new version of it.
And having to trust that it could come out on the other side. And I’m glad now that I did because here’s the new version and I was much happier with it. It just felt balanced and I liked the flow of it so much better. Just the way that the feathers are breaking off just felt right the second time. So, it was worth taking the risk even though it was definitely nerve wracking initially.
Heidi: Yeah, I mean I’m just appreciating the feelings and your experience as an artist and as a human and my hands are moving now. I don’t know if they’re on the screen, but I’m sort of in my body as I’m listening to you and I don’t know that I’ve considered how choice points and creativity also can bring the sensations of scared in a way as well as excitement and joy and thrill. Yeah, I think that’s why I paused there and just noticed–
Karen: I think I already cared enough about the phoenix at this point that I’m afraid to ruin it. And I think as artists there’s always those pieces where you think, oh gosh, I went too far, I should have stopped earlier. And the one benefit to this being acrylics was it was a little bit easier to cover up as opposed to say if it was watercolors or something like that. And so I’m glad that I pushed through because I almost didn’t. It would’ve been easier to just be like, okay, this is just the way it is.
And I think even for myself in the past, especially the past couple of years, I having to look to things differently and getting creative with solutions for even just my daily life and being a disabled person, I think a lot of people don’t even think about how something as simple as taking out the trash would be something to have to consider. But for myself, because I can’t do really heavy weight, it was finding new ways that worked for myself so that I could be independent about it because I have to ask someone for that help every single week didn’t feel good either. And so that balance of trying to find more ways that I could sort of live on my own that were not the way I had been living for 18 years.
Heidi: Yeah, yeah. It’s just beautiful how this, to me anyway, that the story of your journey is coming through your description of the process for creating the phoenix. And the detail that you’re describing and the close-ups of … so the painting is an eight by 10, and when we kind of get to the culmination, I’ll ask if you can do sort of an overview of the verbal description, but all of these details, I mean I don’t know how tiny actually the brushstrokes are, but I remember hearing how, I mean just the detailed bits of it were so minute and so deliberate that as you described the details of what you’ve included in the piece and I know other artists have done this too. There’s symbolism, there’s meaning. So, it’s often more than just what you’re looking at when you go to a deeper understanding of a piece. And I’m really hearing that now.
Karen: It was beyond just a very basic sort of phoenix symbol. It’s one piece of it that I’m actually especially proud of because whether I was painting of like a sad portrait of a pet or painting a mythological creature, I feel like the eye is really like the doorway to the soul, you know, or the window to the soul where it really gives an impression of its personality and really gives an overall sense of: who is this creature?
With the phoenix, it was really important to me for it to have both the strength to it so that it seemed wise and it seemed strong and very sure of itself. But I also wanted it to show kindness and, you know, for it to really feel like it’s gazing at the viewer almost like with empathy. And so even though it’s a strong creature, it’s not one that’s out to harm.
It’s not angry, It’s not you know, there’s no ill intent with it. And I really felt like I was able to capture what I was hoping to see was that I so for me, that was huge. And it’s you know, it’s the time here, this little piece of the canvas, but that little that little bit of canvas of his eye really, to me is what really sort of brings it all together, because it’s really sort of the soul of the painting and in this view of this close up, you can also see its head feathers.
And those are very deliberately chosen to do the three because I was thinking of like the Trinity, which was a nod to my faith. And also I made them like little flames, both because it’s a phoenix, but also because it was going to be my birthday. And so they’re like the candles.
This piece, I definitely wanted to include a lot of symbolism of myself. And so even though it’s not obvious because it’s not like I put in a strawberry blonde white girl into the painting and there’s no bunnies, there’s no horses, it’s not like it says Lyme Disease on it or something. It felt like there was so many symbols that I snuck in and when I look at it feels very personal. And so it was beyond just a very basic sort of phoenix symbol. And I’m laughing because I have a young teenager bunny, speaking about bunnies. Sky is having fun playing in the background right now, so if you hear banging.
Heidi: And my cats are quiet for the moment. So, you were just describing how personal this is to you, or maybe I was suggesting the back and forth of that. And it’s also, this has been traveling in the show, traveling the state, it’s been online. I think the phoenix symbolism is something that’s very relatable to humans right now. And so while it’s deeply personal, it also is kind of universal or relatable and I think lots of time art can be that bridge for from human to human. Yeah. So, it’s really, I’m smiling, I’ve heard some of these details before just because we’ve known each other for a while in the context that we have, but it’s really fun to hear them again and I hope the audience is appreciating as well.
Karen: So, its tail feathers were very much inspired by peacocks and so they have the very classic peacock eyes. And to me that was even a nod to, I was very much getting through the pandemic and just life in general with the help of meditation. And so I was on Insight Timer in particular quite a lot. And so I felt like kind of the head feathers being the Trinity to me.
And that part of my faith that the tail represented that piece of my life of meditation. And so the third eye, so I did three eye feathers, so that was a very deliberate choice, a number of tail feathers.
So, this is the completed phoenix, this was the final version and this is how people now see it out in the world. So, we have the background with all its beautiful blues and teals and all that movement. And then the phoenix itself basically centered on the canvas that was, as we said before, the eight by 10 and its tail flows down to the lower right corner. So, the very bottom of the tail actually touches the edge of the canvas on the bottom and its wings are very open and widespread and up. So, it has to me a very empowering feel because it’s opened the edges of the wing feathers, especially on the tops are lots of goldens, so yellows and oranges and very flame, what we would think of as sort of flame colors going into a deeper red as you get further into the wing.
And then the most inner wing feathers being smaller and being shades of purple like lavenders and then sort of a wisteria purple and violets and sort of dark purples. And its face, it’s turning to the left and you can see its eye looking at the viewer and it has the three head feathers with the little flames. Its beak is gray. And then as a nod to the peacock, it actually has a little bit of white markings around the face, which is otherwise red. And then down it has that longish neck like a peacock. And then going into its body, its body being all reds, different shades of reds. And then it has gray for its legs and its feet with the little lavender toenails and then into the tail. And just like with the wings, the tail feathers also have some feathers that are disconnected. And so I thought of it as sort of the pieces falling away.
So, there’s almost symbolic of discarding. So, some of the feathers not needed anymore can just fall off. And so there’s a bit of that. And even the idea of some feathers may be growing in, so sort of new appearing and the old that aren’t needed anymore going away. And there’s a little bit of tiny bit of purple detail at the base of the tail, and then it sort of goes into the real peacock-like feathers with the longer, or I don’t even know what to call them, the little tendrils of yellow and then the three eyes of the tail feathers.
Heidi: Thank you. Thanks so much, Karen, for sharing the details of your creative process with the phoenix piece, and I’m wondering if there’s anything else you want to share about the phoenix, and then we’ll kind of pull back and go to a broader sense of Karen as a disabled artist and what else you might want to share about that. So, anything else about the phoenix?
Karen: Sure. So, what comes to mind to me is when it’s been out in public, just the response from others because it’s such a personal piece to me. And so of course I put my own stories into the details in my mind, but anyone who’s viewing it, they’re not necessarily even knowing my stories, but hearing feedback from other people who saw it and how much it resonated for them and had such an impact for them really has meant a lot to me. And there’s two different times that in particular that’s really happened where the first was a couple years ago at the Champlain Valley Fair, I actually submitted it in the acrylic division, not for sale because I can’t have it sold, but it was on display. And the day that I went to pick it up, I never expected to have another sort of artist entry person come up to me and say anything.
And this dad was so excited that I was there at the same time he and his son were, because it turns out that his child was so fascinated by my phoenix to the point that even when they went home, he was telling his parents how it was his favorite piece and the whole Champlain Valley Fair Art exhibit, which if any of you have been there before, it’s huge. There’s many different mediums, everything from photography to watercolors, acrylics, oils and some sculptures and a lot. They usually have a few hundred people. And so it is not a small show by any means. And to hear that it had that effect on a young boy really meant a lot to me that he wasn’t just in the moment like, wow, that’s cool that he actually was talking about it to his parents even afterwards and wants to create his own phoenix because of seeing that.
Heidi: Oh yeah, well, I’m smiling really, yeah. [inaudible 00:25:26]-
Karen: Yeah, just think of inspiring the next generation. And then the other, for me, really special moment just happened last Thursday. So, basically we had an art reception where I got to see you, Heidi, because it was Inclusive Arts, the CYCLES exhibit over at the University of Vermont at the CDCI in their hallway.
And getting to speak with a woman who also was really moved by the phoenix and some of the things that she shared and how it was really resonating for her because of what she’s going through in her life. And then even some of the parallels of some of my stories and hers, even some of the commonalities, really powerful for me to sort of hear that. And as an artist, most of the time I’m creating, hoping that it has an impact to others. And this was unusually personal, and yet I think more than maybe anything else I’ve done for painting, it’s been the piece that has had an impact on others, which is really special.
Heidi: Yeah, thank you for that. And am so grateful that you had a chance to actually experience the impact of your art from some people in the community. I think often I heard from artists or hear from artists and people create for themselves, there’s a part of creativity, and this is not academic or anything, but it just seems like the human part. There’s a part of creativity that we do for ourselves because we need to, because there’s things inside that want to come out because we’re inspired and it’s very private and there’s this whole other part, whereas how it’s received, the connections that it makes, the meaning that others receive from it, even if it’s not exactly what the artist had intended. There’s this sort of magical part of, or synchronous part of art being shared. So, I’m really, really glad to hear that you have that.
Karen: Yeah, we don’t always get to hear what the viewer’s experience is, so even that is pretty special to actually get to hear the feedback in person. People are seeing art, but as the artist, we’re often not there, so we don’t get to hear what their experience of it is. So, it meant a lot to me to get some of these bits of feedback.
Heidi: Yeah, yeah. Beautiful. We’re going to shift for a moment to sort of Karen as the artist with disability. So, I’m curious if you want to offer some thoughts about how disability and creativity and art intersect or relate for you as Karen in this moment, 2024.
Karen: They very much so do, because when I went to UVM, I was originally there as an animal science major, and then I got Lyme and my brain didn’t work the same anymore. And I realized realistically, being a veterinarian and going to veterinary school, it was just not going to be in the cards in this life for me. And I switched to being an English major with an animal science minor, so I still, because I almost had that major completed, so I sort of kept that too, but it was graduating and then trying to work full time, my health was really impacting me, and I got to the point where it couldn’t be ignored. It just got to a level where I couldn’t hide it. I couldn’t work around it enough anymore. And so it’d be 11 years ago now that I officially became legally disabled.
And my mom actually often will tell me that she feels like God gave me the gift of art because I would need that as a life purpose after my own plans got changed. And when I was a young kid, I had that dream actually of being an artist. That was my original dream was to be an artist. I remember being in third grade and I really wanted to be an illustrator and also a writer. So, I had these thoughts of making these children’s books that I would do everything I would do. All the beautiful illustrations that went along with the story. And so in a weird roundabout way, becoming disabled allowed me to focus on my art again in a way that I maybe wouldn’t have had if I was working a full-time job and doing all the things that people do when they’re not dealing with disability. And so it’s tricky because all the things that make it difficult to have a real job still impact me as an artist too.
So, having the fatigue makes it hard to be as productive. Having the brain fog makes it harder to get anything done or to push through. And I actually struggle a lot with migraines. And so that’s been a big limiting factor also. And so it’s interesting because it’s kind of this weird thing where on the one hand, disability allows me to be an artist in a way that I don’t think I would have otherwise. But it also does create limitations for me that I’m not a very fast producer of art. I’m definitely much more limited in my output than I wish I was. So, that’s sometimes hard of, especially nowadays when social media is huge, and especially as an artist is helpful to be part of Instagram and Facebook to get our work seen.
But sometimes it can be challenging to see what everyone else is doing who’s able-bodied and who’s healthy, and they’re able to crank out all these pieces and it’s like, oh. And so that struggle of having to not be so hard on myself that what they can do and what I can are not the same, and having to have some grace for myself that that’s just not my path as an artist. I’m not going to be the one who’s making record numbers of pieces.
Heidi: As I listen to you describe that, I feel like the societal layers in my hands are kind of moving outward of expectations and ableism and the ways that sort of intersects with life or disabled people. It’s a part. And in some ways, society connects that with value that are very, I feel like very misled and not true. But there’s a lot of to challenge with the monetizing of value, and this may not be the place for it, but to hear you talk about your art and what might be helpful for artists that don’t have disabilities, it’s not like apples and apples for [inaudible 00:33:36]. Is that accurate or maybe [inaudible 00:33:38]-
Karen: Yeah, that really resonates. I think there is a lot of ableism that happens even within the art community. I think it’s easy to think of artists and art and art community as being more progressive. And perhaps to some degree that is true, but I think there is a lot of ableism that it’s so internalized that people don’t even realize. And so there’s a lot of comments that happen that people don’t even understand how it comes off and how hurtful it can feel to those of us who are a disabled artist. I have definitely struggled with that at times where someone says something and it’s like, whew. And I don’t think they mean it the way it is, if that makes sense.
Heidi: Yeah.
Karen: It’s just not an awareness often.
Heidi: And I know I’ve worked through and continue to work through my own internalized ableism, so it’s something, it’s like a lot of the internalized isms. And when I was hearing you all the productivity and the things that you sort of wish for me that just, I felt that in my heart as because the world of what we understand is valuable or “successful” is not always the path. I think you said it very beautifully. So, that’s not my path as an artist.
Karen: And there was a lot of grief. When I left, I was working at [Vermont Student Assistance Corporation] at the time, was my last full-time job, and there was a lot of grief in that officially applying for disability and basically admitting: I am disabled. That was hard. And I think a lot of that does come from even the internalized sort of anti-disabledness that we have in our society that we all want to be able-bodied because that’s celebrated. You know what I mean? And like you said about value, I think it makes it harder for those of us who are going through something and it’s not like we have a choice most of the time. Usually we don’t in these situations, and it’s simply what is happening and we have to learn to do the best we can with it.
But I think for me, we all have, even those of us who are disabled, we still have that internalized because of the society that we grew up in and that we live in still. These expectations that are put on us by others, but also on ourselves. And so that’s something that I definitely struggled with for a long time and I think has gotten somewhat better compared to 11 years ago when I was first dealing with it. I think now I can even say a bit almost with pride, like, yes, I’m a disabled artist, whereas that would’ve been really hard I think initially to say that.
Heidi: Yeah. Thank you for that, that add-on to the conversation, that initial question around the intersection of art and disability for you or creativity. And I would like to ask you next about challenges you face as an artist and then stay tuned for that. What supports your creativity? So, there’s a both and to that for this next little bit. So, you mentioned some of them, but just in case there’s any that you didn’t share for challenges, an artist in Vermont.
Karen: I think sometimes accessibility if it’s not with an organization, so say if there’s an art reception, for example, if it’s not with an organization like Inclusive Arts Vermont or UVM CDCI where there’s more awareness of what is even accessibility and what needs could artists maybe have a typical art exhibit around here, at least in my experience has been, for example, just a lack of chairs. And for someone like myself where I have a lot of physical pain and a lot of fatigue, and that varies. It varies on the day, it varies even within the day. And on a rough day especially, I really am going to need to be able to sit down and if I don’t have the ability to at all, that would mean having to leave early or not being able to attend. And so I’ve really appreciated with VSA and then Inclusive Arts through all the exhibits that we’ve had, having that as just contacting you to just let you know, “Hey, I need a chair by my piece.”
And to be able to have that as an option if I need to use it. And I usually do at some point take a break and it’s hard. I think that’s another thing with disability. People almost I think had this weird, I don’t know what to call it, a limitation almost of like, oh, you need to be in a wheelchair or using a cane to need that kind of accessibility. But that’s not true. So, many of us who are in between where, yes, I can walk and yes, I can stand, but I can’t do it for as long as most other people can.
And so in my experience, that’s something that I hope changes in general in Vermont with art when there is a big show on an art exhibit that we have that open of, okay, what are needs? Maybe someone needs braille for descriptions, maybe someone needs ASL, having an interpreter on site, whatever it is to have that awareness of making it more inclusive, both for the participating artists, but also for the public who’s coming in who they might need those options too, for accessibility. And I’d love to see that change for the better.
Heidi: Yeah. You were describing the experience of a non-apparent disability so that there’s some stereotypical or not what comes to mind and heart when somebody hears disability, like what they imagine, but there’s so many disabilities that are non-apparent that it sounds like you’ve had some experience trying to navigate that part of inclusion for yourself.
Karen: Yes. I think it can be a double-edged sword. Obviously none of us would wish to be more disabled, but certainly when we’re out in public, if we look on the outside, if we have a very invisible disability, I think it’s easy for people to not respond in ways that are very helpful. And so, one thing that I’ve noticed being presenting younger too, even though I’m 42 now, but often people think I’m younger than that, but regardless, I know I’m not a senior citizen and I’m not in a wheelchair. And so something as simple as getting groceries for me, especially, because I actually broke my back a few years ago and that only added to some of my limitations. It never healed to be quite the same again. And so I have a lot of in my back, and so going to the grocery store, if I can have the cashier help with the bagging, because that motion really is hard on my body and I’ve learned which cashiers at which stores will be helpful and which ones to avoid. And then which stores in general have a very good environment.
So, for me, Healthy Living, I’ll just give them a nice little shout-out, because it’s like they’ve been kind of a godsend to me as a customer where they are across the board, everyone there has always treated me kindly and respectfully when I ask for help. There’s no weird attitude. They’re very respectful, they’re happy to help me. And when I broke my back, they even would bring my groceries to my car for me, which meant a lot. And I think that’s one thing that is so nice about Vermont being sort of that sort of smaller local, so that being a local place and being more community oriented as opposed to a larger non-local company. And so that’s something I’ve definitely faced though, is by not being as obviously disabled, sometimes there’s difficulty around that.
Heidi: And I know you and I have talked in the past about some of those things and sort of the challenges of being an artist, but then also being a human with a disability that there’s some overlap for sure. And if we don’t mind switching or just ask, you sort of went there with a shout-out to Healthy Living that what are things that support your creativity and your thriving? What are the things that work well for you or that you have learned so you can work well with yourself in all of the different ways that you might show up whether they’re wanted or not?
Karen: And are you asking from a disability standpoint or just in general as-
Heidi: Say wherever you want, but what supports your creativity is the sort of question there. Yeah.
Karen: Yeah. I mean, of all the things, and I know I’ve mentioned this to you before, but my favorite rock band is U2 and their music. And the few times I’ve gotten to see them in concert have been just … Well, especially going to see them in concert, it’s been such a blessing when that’s happened and I never feel as alive as I do in those moments. And there’s just something about the music, and I guess it’s because it is that creative energy. Those of us who are artists, it’s like whether it’s music or a painting, there’s a similar energy there. And I always do my artwork with music, and most often that means U2 music. So, I usually have U2 songs playing, and it’s almost like part of me because I’ve listened to them so much. And so there’s a flow to hearing it that’s different than if it was, say, listening to the radio, for example, because I know those songs so well and they bring me joy.
And there’ve been times, even if I’m making say my cards, I make my own art prints and then I put them on card stock and make them into cards. And sometimes my body is just like, oh gosh, I am so exhausted and maybe my back is really hurting because I’ve been bending over. And there’s usually a certain point where, gosh, I’d rather be doing anything else because my body is just so done. And by putting on some U2 music usually helps me to keep going longer than I would otherwise. It’s a nice distraction and helps keep my mind off of some of the pain a little bit. And obviously it can only do that for so long still, but it does help. And another big inspiration for me, it is definitely my bunnies. They’re such loves and I feel like I really got through the last couple years, especially because of my bunnies.
Heidi: Thank you so much for that, Karen. Just a couple more questions, and one is, what advice would you give to other artists with disabilities in Vermont?
Karen: I think the biggest one I would give would be to become part of the community, if you will. And so for myself, that actually happened because of VSA, which now is called Inclusive Arts Vermont. So, having an exhibit that was centered around disabled artists, it just gives a different feel than when it’s in a broader exhibit, which I’ve also been part of. And those are amazing in their own ways, but there’s something to be said about being in the room with other people who can understand on a deeper level. And we sort of share similar experiences. And even though our individual stories might have specific differences, and we might have a different reason for being disabled or a different diagnosis, whatever it is, but there are common layers underneath all of that, which is really special. And that sense of community has been really, really powerful and wonderful in my life and something that I really treasure.
And I just feel like there’s a support there that is unique to anything else. And some of the connections have actually turned into friendships for me too, which has been really quite special and unexpected. And so I think to find those avenues. And one thing that through the Pandemic was really helpful for me both personally, but also as a disabled artist, was when Inclusive Arts Vermont had a networking over Zoom. And we would meet once a month and we would share our projects and maybe share ideas of what we were hoping to do or brainstorming together. And one thing actually that came out of that for me with my art was with the Phoenix to display it without a frame, because another artist sort of mentioned that and having it feel free and not caged in with a frame. And so it was amazing even from that where we can sort of learn from each other and get inspired. And so I would really recommend for other disabled artists to try to find whatever that is, your community of people and to reach out.
Heidi: Yeah. Thank you. I’ve heard so many artists talk about this and other artists in CYCLES, and there’s a part of art that’s individual and we need each other. And so that balance, and I was, because I was part of the networking that you were describing, the Phoenix, you brought that to the group and it was remembering that the suggestion to not have it be trapped with a frame. Yeah.
Karen: And I love that suggestion because it was so true. It was really appropriate to have it feel free like that. And so that is how it’s displayed now is without a frame.
Heidi: And thank you so much, Karen. Is there anything else you want to share with the audience before we wind down our conversation? It’s been so wonderful to be in dialogue with you about art and creativity and all of the things. What else do you want to share? Anything else?
Karen: Well, for me, it’s been pretty amazing just the timing of the CYCLES exhibit, because of course it traveled to different locations around the state of Vermont, but it started at the UVM Davis Center, and then it ended at UVM CDCI, and it’s there in that organization’s 50th anniversary this year. And for me, it’s my 20th anniversary of graduating from the University of Vermont. So, of all the pieces for it to be my Phoenix and get to have it at two different locations at UVM this year, I just felt like that timing of that in particular was really special. And it meant a lot to me, because I loved my time at UVM and to still have that connection to it in a way, and for it to be through such a special peace of mind with my art. I was glad that that could happen.
Heidi: Well, thank you Karen, and thanks for sharing more details about and the intimacy of the process with your piece in CYCLES Phoenix, and your connection with others who’ve responded to it, and just sharing your beautiful, vulnerable, artistic, creative human self today with me and with audience. Appreciate that.
Karen: Thank you so much, Heidi. It’s always a joy speaking with you.
You can see more of Karen’s artwork and photographs at natureheartstudio.com.
