PEDSPROVT Open Forum May 27, 2020
Transcript
Please note: you will notice that PEDSPROVT is referred to as “Tripscy” in this forum. This content dates from before the name of the project was changed to PEDSPROVT.
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Chayah (00:00:00):
I am going to change my view so that the Zoom recording looks right. Okay. Once again, thank you for
coming to our third and final TRIPSCY Open Forum, during this really complex and challenging time of
change. It’s been really wonderful to have all these opportunities to come together with all providers
across different disciplines.
(00:00:27):
Excuse me, I’m going to close my Outlook because it keeps chiming at me while I’m talking.
(00:00:34):
Okay. Over the past few weeks, we have touched on many different topics. The two topics that came up
as top interests and priorities for today were ESY services and assessment. I’m going to touch on ESY
first. I personally don’t have a whole lot of content on ESY. In fact, I would say I have very little content
on ESY, rather I feel like I’m sort of opening the floor for that conversation. And if it doesn’t take up a
long period of time, I do have relatively more actual content to offer on the topic of assessment, but I
want to create space to talk about ESY.
(00:01:18):
Before I get started though, I do want to mention for anyone that didn’t either see the email or hasn’t heard
about it, Vermont Family Network is hosting a Town Hall Forum with AOE Special Education
representatives at three o’clock today, and it is on the topic of ESY. The way that they’re framing it is it’s a
clarification of the memo that was sent around on May 8th about ESY, and differentiating ESY from
compensatory services. So perhaps after that we may have more information about what’s coming from
the top about how ESY will be provided or what it will look like, maybe not. But I have that link right
here and I’m going to copy it into the chat box for us.
(00:02:28):
And so on that topic, I’m also planning to try and wrap us up 10 to 15 minutes early so that everyone can
get an eye and brain break before that event, because I suspect that probably a lot of people are wanting to
go to that event.
(00:02:45):
So on the topic of ESY, like I said, I don’t have a lot personally to offer. There were a lot of really
interesting ideas that came up last time that we met about the idea of doing it sort of summer camp style.
I’m thinking I would like to just open the floor and find out. I know also that many people work for
different districts and different districts may be offering different policies, but if anybody wants to speak
up and speak to what you’re hearing from your district or districts about how ESY services will be
provided, and/or whether you’ve had any ideas about how you are thinking of providing ESY services or
offering value to your students via a remote model. Or are there any school districts that are saying that
they’re going to be doing ESY in person? Any of those questions? I’m just going to pause for a second and
see if anybody either speaks up via chat or directly.
Anne (00:03:56):
So we had a meeting this morning about it, and I think what we’re offering is teletherapy. There are some
of the kids that we have that are not going to work on teletherapy, and we just know at this point, so the
hope is that we may have some kids coming in live to our center. But we’re waiting for people to tell us
how do we do that? What do we have to wear? What’s the PPE that we got to do? All of that. So that’s the
plan right now.
Chayah (00:04:30):
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Thanks for sharing that, Anne. Yeah, that hybrid model. Have other people heard directives from their
SUs about what kind of models they might be using?
Lindsay (00:04:42):
We’re still getting a lot of, “I don’t know,” and “Wait and see.” We are pretty sure that all of our Early Ed
ESY programming will be remote. We’re still waiting on directives for K-12 and what that’s going to look
like. If there is any type of K-12 summer programming it looks like it will probably be shortened then its
usual time. But as far as ESY services, we are still waiting for direction. And we had a meeting, our
Special Ed director was in one of our meetings this morning, and her statement was, “We’re still waiting
for direction.” So who knows?
Speaker 4 (00:05:26):
So one of my districts is just going to do remote, and I was told that we had to write new DLP’s for
summer services. Has anybody else been told that?
Lindsay (00:05:36):
Yes. That’s the directive from the state.
Speaker 4 (00:05:42):
So more paperwork.
Lindsay (00:05:45):
Yep.
Pam (00:05:50):
Hi. Karen said, “Essex Westford is offering both remote and in-person OT and PT based on family
requests for ESY. Location may be in the home or in the building. They’re not sure now.” Thanks Karen.
Chayah (00:06:10):
Karen, does that also include Special Education services and SLP services, or that’s just how OT and PT
are being provided? I’m so curious if it’s just really a case-by-case basis.
Karen (00:06:23):
Hold on, let me connect here. We had a discussion this morning and it was mainly the OTs and the PTs
that were there at the meeting with the Special Ed directors. The district sent out questionnaires to the
families and asked the families what they wanted. And this is for only Special Ed eligible students, and
most of these students, they have to fit the ESY requirements, that they would have a significant loss over
the summer if they didn’t receive services, so it’s not all of the Special Ed students.
(00:07:03):
We right now have one of our PTs and one of our OTs that are willing to do in-person with masks, etc.
And that whole conversation about where this will occur. We didn’t get into a lot of detail because now
we’re still dealing with the buildings and trying to figure out how buildings management is going to be
fixing up the buildings in the summer to get ready for the fall. So we didn’t have a discussion of location.
(00:07:36):
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But many of our families would like face-to-face as opposed to distance learning, but other families are
doing fine with distance learning. So I’m not sure about SLPs. We didn’t have the conversation with the
SLPs.
Chayah (00:08:01):
Thank you. Do people have… Heather says, “Maple Run is ‘Wait and see.’ Definitely no home visits.
Lawyers said the environment is too risky.” Yeah.
Karen (00:08:23):
Can I add one more thing?
Chayah (00:08:25):
Of course.
Karen (00:08:25):
And another piece that was discussed this morning, we’re still getting feedback from the liability
insurance that covers the district about the in-person visits, so things could change. But right now our PT,
and as I said, one of our OTs, they’re willing to do face-to-face and we’re really concerned about a lot of
our students that have significant motor challenges, and their positioning, their equipment, all of that, just
to be able to see that and really see it in person is what the emphasis would be. So again, these are
consultative visits, they’re not direct service visits.
Chayah (00:09:19):
Thank you. Yeah, that’s an interesting point also that even if you were to see them in person, it would be
more like just a periodic consultation. Is that pretty consistent on anyone that’s heard, that the services
would be much more limited in terms of scope and hours? I mean, it has been during the school year for
the vast majority of students as well. Yeah, I see Anne nodding.
Karen (00:09:54):
And you still have to remember that Essex Westford rarely follows a consultative model. Very rarely do
we have direct service written on the IEPs.
Chayah (00:10:06):
Right. That’s a good point.
(00:10:15):
Do people feel like, and I just want to guide this conversation in the direction it feels most valuable to
go… I’m going to look back at the chat. Lillian says, “I was thinking we would want to check in with our
liability insurance to make sure we’re covered if somehow kids or families could be become infected with
COVID [inaudible 00:10:35] providers.” Yeah.
(00:10:38):
And Lindsay says, “All attorneys are suggesting there’s no face-to-face contact over the summer. That’s
what I was told for the summer.” Yeah. Oh, you were told this morning. I think those are concerns that I
think we’re going to have to face, providers are going to have to face those concerns at some point
anyway. I think that’s a really interesting question of whether that’s something that… It needs to be
obviously determined on the statewide level in many ways, but also ultimately it’s at the discretion of our
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liability insurance. And for people who are employees, sometimes our liability insurance is actually held
by the institution that we work for too. So that changes the stakes a little bit.
Karen (00:11:29):
Can I also say, that this conversation that happened this morning is a draft and everyone is waiting on
AOE to hear what their recommendation is and again, that insurance liability question is a huge question.
So basically OT-PT staff were polled by the Special Ed directors saying, “Would anyone be willing to do
face-to-face?” It’s up to the therapist how they feel. And then we’re going to have to wait and see, because
even if someone’s willing to do face-to-face, we may not be allowed to.
Chayah (00:12:08):
Yeah. Thank you.
Pam (00:12:12):
And once there is face-to-face happening, whenever that is, the summer or next fall, or whenever, there
also may be some state requirement from OSHA for the safety training that everyone would have to go
through before they can start. So that may be a question for your district as well, if they’ve got access to
that. And right now, according to Jesse, who’s the director of CDCI, he said there is one available, but he’s
not sure if it might not change. Of course, they’re safety guidelines, we don’t know exactly what they are
quite yet.
Karen (00:12:50):
So again, are the Special Ed directors, the state level association, are they meeting with AOE? I would
assume they are. There’s probably a lot of discussion happening at the upper level that we just don’t know
about yet. I hope at least.
Chayah (00:13:20):
When you say the state Special Ed directors, are you-
Karen (00:13:24):
The association-
Chayah (00:13:25):
… Oh, right.
Pam (00:13:28):
[inaudible 00:13:28]. Yeah?Karen (00:13:28):
The Special Ed Directors Association.
Chayah (00:13:30):
Right.
Pam (00:13:31):
I would imagine they have to be, but I don’t know that.
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Chayah (00:13:32):
Yeah, I don’t know the details of that.
Karen (00:13:37):
Right. Yeah, I would wonder if people are doing face-to-face if they would have to follow what’s going
on in hospitals. Face shield, mask, gloves, etc.
Pam (00:13:54):
So I’ve been trying to find information about when home visiting, like nursing, like PT/OT home visiting,
what the guideline’s specifically for when that can start again. And as we’ve heard in some of our EI
meetings, statewide meetings, some people just did it all the way through. Their agencies let them do it
with… Yes. Lindsay saying, “Yes.” Go ahead Lindsay.
Lindsay (00:14:22):
Well, I just heard about, I was in a meeting and another person in the meeting said they had a family
member who gets PT and OT through Home Health, and they had just started it up again.
Pam (00:14:37):
Started up again.
Lindsay (00:14:41):
Sorry, did you not hear that?
Pam (00:14:41):
Yeah, it’s started up.
Lindsay (00:14:42):
Yeah, it just started up again. I don’t know if that was locally or somewhere else, but yeah. And our Early
Ed nurse, Carol Neary for the Burlington School District was, she’s in a lot of those state level meetings.
So every week when we have our Early Ed meetings, she comes back with all these guidelines around
PPE, and face shields, and changing your clothes. It’s incredibly overwhelming, and I hope we’re in a
different place in September because… And our Special Ed director ordered 5,000 masks, I think for, I’m
not sure who, students, staff, I’m not really sure. But yeah, it’s crazy.
Karen (00:15:26):
I think outpatient OT/PT opened, I want to say last week, that they can do face-to-face, but they have to
take social distancing precautions and other precautions.
Pam (00:15:41):
Right. Where people are going, they are clinic based. Is that what you mean?
Karen (00:15:41):
Clinic based?
Pam (00:15:45):
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Yeah, I agree. I believe that too.
Karen (00:15:49):
Burlington?
Pam, are you in contact at all with Todd Patterson, who’s the director of Home Health and Hospice in
Pam (00:15:57):
I have not been.
Karen (00:15:57):
Okay.
Pam (00:15:58):
But yeah, I just was having this conversation with Jesse this morning.
Karen (00:16:02):
Okay.
Pam (00:16:03):
So that was-
Karen (00:16:04):
Actually, Todd is part of the Vermont OT Association Board, and I can shoot him an email and see if he
has any news to share and let you know.
Pam (00:16:14):
That would be really helpful. Thank you.
Karen (00:16:16):
Yeah.
Pam (00:16:18):
Vermont OSHA?
So just to catch up with the chat briefly. Anne said that they did a Vermont, is it a VOSHA? Is that
Anne (00:16:26):
VOSAH, yeah. Vermont OSHA. We had to do-
Pam (00:16:30):
Safety training, is that what you’re talking about?
Anne (00:16:32):
… Mm-hmm.
Pam (00:16:32):
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Yeah. And Lillian suggested that some families would be happy to sign a release that would hold
therapists harmless for any COVID risks.
(00:16:43):
Barb asked, “How are masks being provided to kids? Is the school going to be responsible if they’re doing
face-to-face?” That’s a great question. Are schools going to be providing masks to children and families?
(00:16:56):
Diane Solomon, “I think SpEd directors are meeting at least regionally.” Thank you. “State level meeting
possibly yesterday.”
(00:17:04):
Phoebe said they did the VOSHA one as well, “It was required both by districts and your insurance
carrier.” Yeah. That’s interesting. Yeah, I think the meeting this afternoon will be enlightening.
(00:17:20):
Sandra said, “For outpatient therapy you need to have a screening prior to the appointment and only one
person can be with the patient.”
Heidi (00:17:29):
And I wanted to add to that for when seeing people in person, you have to do the screening to make sure
they haven’t had any visitations with anybody that was known sick. If they have any fever or respiratory
issues. Me as a provider, I have to wear a mask. If it’s a potential COVID infection, that’s when I have to
get fully suited up. And then for my policy, I change clothes in between seeing patients or I only see one
per day. So that helps with the social distancing piece. But it’s really complicated for sure.
Pam (00:18:08):
Thanks.
Chayah (00:18:14):
Wow. Well, I think the other side of this conversation is for… Oh, Heather says, “Biomedics met a family
in their vehicle to cast for new orthosis for a child that needed more than one caregiver present.” Wow,
that’s pretty adaptable on part of the biomedics team. That couldn’t have been easy for anybody. Go
biomedics. Yeah.
(00:18:46):
The other side of this conversation is for people who are intending to provide a direct service model of
ESY, or even those who are planning on providing a consultation model of ESY, what that might look
like or what you might actually provide, what you would offer. I don’t know if Hannah is here today, but
Hannah Bloom brought up some really, really cool ideas that sparked a lot of people’s interest. I’m not
seeing that Hannah was able to make it today.
(00:19:26):
And I think it’s kind of outside of the scope of this moment, but I’m wondering if people are interested in
connecting and talking more about either resources, or models, or things that they are considering or
offering for this remote ESY approach. Can you add your name to the chat box and maybe write ESY so
that when I scroll back through the notes I know? Because I think that this would be a really great topic
for more heads to be able to provide more robust offerings. I think that it’s one thing when we’re
providing direct service and we’re in there, when we’re providing consultation I love to be able to share
resources and go back and forth. So if people are interested in collaborating on that, or even adding to a
shared body of knowledge on ESY offerings and services, add your name and email address and ESY to
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the chat box. And then I’m going to put something out on RIPSCY later with the notes and resources from
this event so that people can connect on that topic if interested at all.
(00:20:40):
It’s so quiet. Okay. Does anybody else have any additional thoughts, considerations, concerns about ESY
that you want to bring to this group?
(00:21:05):
Great, okay. So shifting gears, the other topic that came up that people were really interested in learning
about was assessment. And this is an area that there’s relatively more precedent for than providing remote
ESY services. So I was able to find some information and resources that I hope will be helpful. Before I
dig in, I know that when we brought this topic up a couple of weeks ago, Heather Blackburn for example,
said that you’ve been asked not to do any evaluation. Does anybody have the go-ahead to perform
evaluations? Is anybody sitting on evaluations that they’re waiting to perform? You can put it in the chat
if that’s more comfortable? Or has everyone been told not to perform evaluations while in remote
learning?
Phoebe (00:22:26):
[inaudible 00:22:26]Speaker 4 (00:22:28):
The whole bigger picture of evaluations has been put on hold in my district. So if they’re not going ahead
with the full eval, then I’m not allowed to do my piece either.
Chayah (00:22:38):
Sure. Right. And does anybody know, is that something that came down from AOE or is that something
that’s been determined on a district by district basis?
Karen (00:22:59):
It seems that it’s more district by district. And in one of my districts it was driven by the school
psychologists who felt they could not do a virtual evaluation via Zoom. We have been told that we can do
additional assessments if it’s in the form of a checklist that we might share with the family or share with
the classroom teacher. So for instance, a self-care checklist that we can score, do a report on, but that
hands-on piece of evaluation is definitely on hold.
Chayah (00:23:42):
Right.
Speaker 4 (00:23:44):
Does anyone, if we were to do something like the TVPS that you could hold up and they could see on
Zoom, does that negate any standardization?
Karen (00:23:54):
I’m not sure.
Speaker 4 (00:23:57):
So-
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Phoebe (00:23:59):
I’ll have to look, I think it’s Pearson Clinical is doing a webinar within the next week on doing
assessments remotely right now.
Karen (00:24:09):
What is that Phoebe? Maybe you could type that in.
Phoebe (00:24:12):
Yeah. Pearson Clinical. I’ll look for the link. I’m on two devices because I’m taking notes here. Pearson
Clinical is doing a webinar on remote assessment, and I have to think that since they’re presenting it, there
must be some formal assessments that can be done that way with validity. But that’s all I know.
Chayah (00:24:39):
Yeah. So there are many assessment tools that are… I’m actually going to interrupt myself and just say
that a resource that Pam actually put out on RIPSCY a couple of weeks ago that I want to mention again,
is a four-day pediatric… Let me find the title of it. It’s the eHealth Summit for Pediatric Therapists and it’s
got a massive number of offerings, including offerings for school-based therapists, EI, underserved
populations, tech challenges, assessment was one of the topics. And it’s free of charge and it starts today.
Some of the hours are really strange, but-
Pam (00:25:28):
Because it’s international.
Chayah (00:25:29):
Because it’s international, right. It’s based in New Zealand. But many, many of the therapists are from
within the United States, which means that they’ll be discussing things under IDEA rules and
understandings and things like that. And it’s $50 to get a year of access, which includes Certificates of
Attendance for any sessions that you attend. I haven’t actually attended any of the sessions yet, they’re
starting today, but I think it is a great resource. And if you’re interested in the certificate and being able to
refer back, I think it could be really a worthwhile place to get lots of information on the world that we’re
living in. So on the topic-
Pam (00:26:18):
[inaudible 00:26:18] add the link.Chayah (00:26:18):
… What’s that?
Pam (00:26:19):
Add the link again into the chat box.
Chayah (00:26:21):
Yeah.
Phoebe (00:26:21):
And just a caution, that when you look at the schedule, the times are on New Zealand time.
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Chayah (00:26:26):
Oh.
Pam (00:26:28):
Right, but when you make your schedule, it will give you the schedule in your own time.
Chayah (00:26:31):
Oh, in the email, that’s your own time? That’s helpful.
Phoebe (00:26:34):
Yeah. But when you’re planning, just know that 9:00 AM might be-
Pam (00:26:39):
Time calculator.
Chayah (00:26:40):
Totally. Wow, okay. Thank you.
Pam (00:26:44):
Chayah, what’s interesting about this-
Chayah (00:26:45):
Yes.
Pam (00:26:46):
… Can I just take a second and have a kind of side?
Chayah (00:26:48):
Yes.
Pam (00:26:48):
So this eHealth Summit is created by Mindy Silva and she’s a physiotherapist from New Zealand who is
the person who does the WiredOn interviews. And if you haven’t heard the WiredOn podcasts, you should
definitely check them out. They’re really great. It’s like a talk show for pediatric PT and OT’s famous
people. Like the stars of the pediatric PT and OT world. And so Mindy has this group of great podcasts
and I think you can just find it on iTunes or whatever, I can give you the link for that if you need it.
They’re really interesting.
(00:27:28):
And then about two years ago, Mindy started this other thing, which is called the WiredOn Collective,
and it’s a group of physical and occupational, and it can be wider, but it tends to be more PT/OT right
now, pediatric therapists that are international. And it’s about $20 a month or something. You can do an
annual. And it is this really interesting group of people, there’s learning sessions where people are
teaching things, but there’s also small groups where you can just be on a Zoom meeting and chat with
people. And there’s all sorts of very interesting things.
(00:28:07):
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Because it’s a collective, there’s only two times a year that she adds new people, but if people are
interested in that link, I can share it. July likely would be the next time she adds people. I’ve done it for
about a year and a half, and I really, really like it. It’s really cool to have a hour with five people who are
working internationally and hearing different things, and you can bring your own topics. It’s very
interesting. If anyone wants more info, let me know. Okay, I’ll stop now. Go ahead, Chayah.
Chayah (00:28:36):
Pam, that was an awesome aside. Thank you. I didn’t even know about that, so thanks for sharing that.
(00:28:45):
So Barb, I have a little bit of information and a large number of resources that I think could help answer
your question. There are a number of assessment tools that are standardized for telehealth use, which
probably is not your question and probably something that you already know. But some of them you can
use by using a doc camera or something that’s similarly high resolution that you’re pointing at your own
desk or table. The recommendation is that when you are doing a remote assessment that preferably you
use two cameras. You have a camera that’s on you so that you’re visible to your student and also that you
have a doc camera, doc being short for document, or similar high resolution webcam. I personally think
that probably a lot of cell phones, if you can position it properly just above your desk somehow would
probably fit the bill.
(00:30:04):
But also both Pearson and WPS are making a number of their online assessment, their administration
scoring tools and test manuals free or a significantly reduced price. In one place I saw that WPS was
providing free test manual access, but their website says 50% off. So the truth is somewhere in between
those two maybe.
(00:30:37):
One resource that I’m going to forward to everybody, but I want to share it so people know that it is
valuable and worth opening. There is a website called telehealthshare.com, which I will add to the
resource sheet. It’s really similar to Teachers Pay Teachers or something like that, but it’s specifically for
therapists. It looks like it’s mostly OTs but also some PTs who are experienced in creating valuable
resources for telehealth work. Some of them are free. I haven’t accessed any of the resources that are for
money, but I will just share with you, it’s not super detailed, but I thought they were good lists of some
assessment tools. I’m going to just screen share for a second.
(00:31:48):
It’s telling me I can’t minimize Zoom. Okay, hold on a second. I think this was actually a PowerPoint that
Melanie Criss, who started TelehealthShare, provided. It is a list of what I find to be a pretty
comprehensive list of some great visual, and fine motor, and sensory, executive functioning, ADLs. And
then she has a report template, which again was for costs, so I haven’t used it.
(00:32:31):
If you look towards the end of this PDF, she does have a link. The link that I want to refer to is actually at
the beginning. She has six YouTube videos of Telehealth OT assessments, which range anywhere from 5
to, I think 13 or 14 minutes in length. And again, this whole thing will be provided, I’m going to put it
right here, which can, I think, give some insight from experienced providers.
(00:33:15):
There are also two lists, one for school-aged children and one for EI-aged children, of just a number of
assessment tools that are… This is not the one that I thought it was. I’m sorry. Oh, I’m sorry. In any case,
the list that I have… I’m going to turn off my desktop share here. Am I still sharing my desktop?
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Phoebe (00:33:58):
You are not, no.
Chayah (00:34:00):
Oh, I was before though, right?
Phoebe (00:34:02):
No.
Chayah (00:34:03):
Oh.
Phoebe (00:34:04):
Sorry.
Chayah (00:34:06):
Oh, well that’s better because I was having a hard time finding what it was I meant to find. So hold on, I’m
going to show it because I think it’s valuable. Give me just one second. Oh, you know what? I’m sorry,
I’m not going to be able to do this right now. I just updated my whole system and apparently since I
updated my system, I didn’t give new permissions and I would have to dig pretty deep.
(00:34:31):
So in any case, there are a number of assessment tools that are standardizable for remote use. The SFA,
the DASH, the VMI, the DACE, the Sensory Processing Measure, the Sensory Profile are just a short sub-
list of the ones that are available. So if we do end up in a situation where we are providing it, and where
we have to administer assessment in this remote setting, just know that there are a number of tools out
there. And I would say looking at the TelehealthShare resources will help you find ones that probably
match your needs pretty effectively. I’m so sorry that I thought I was sharing that whole time and I clearly
wasn’t.
(00:35:25):
The other things that I learned, just in short, were thinking about how you’re performing an assessment.
And I know that this might not be too relevant for people right now, but I’m going to provide the
information because it may be relevant to some people sooner or later. Some of the things that are
recommended to enable some fidelity of your assessment, you want to send all of the materials including
pencils, pennies, anything that you might need for assessment you’re going to need to send along. And
what’s been recommended is that if there are test administration booklets, you want to put that in its own
sealed manila envelope that you put a signature or seal on, and make it really clear, “Do not open until
you’re on camera.” And then you want a document that you saw the family open the test packet.
(00:36:24):
And also, because you can’t photocopy, scan, or duplicate because of copyright reasons, you also can’t
screen capture or session record an evaluation and use that to be able to score. So they recommend that
you include a self-addressed stamped envelope to return materials, and then that you actually say at the
end of the evaluation, you ask the parent to, while they’re still on camera, place all the materials in the
envelope, seal it up and sign it, so you know that that’s all happened.
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And the other things that I’ve learned are then when you report, make sure that you’re reporting what kind
of seating and surfaces the child is using, the student is using. You write in there how you made sure that
the family had an opened the test booklet packet.
(00:37:23):
And also that again, it’s highly recommended that the family uses two cameras. Which I was like, that is
just prohibitively complicated for most families, but the way that I have heard providers getting around
that is that if you set up a Google Meet, or a Zoom session, or whatever your platform is that you’re using,
they can just sign in from two different devices. If they have a laptop or tablet, that can be the direct face
with the child, and then they can find a way potentially to mount their phone with the camera facing down
as the second camera so that you can actually watch for example, and again this is talking from OT
perspective, but what they’re doing with their hands or how they’re manipulating tools or objects.
(00:38:20):
And then the other thing, I listened to a webinar from AOTA and the OT that was providing it was talking
about provision of work samples, and she said, “Ask parents to send,” and this is a direct quote, “not the
best but not the worst work sample.” And I was like, “Well, that’s highly specific.” So just an average
work sample of that child with parameters. What they can write within 10 minutes or five minutes, or
what they can write when given a visual model or not given a visual model.
(00:38:57):
So those are most of the pieces of information that I have on that topic. I will share those resources out to
the group and share those notes out to the group. But I’m going to pause here and ask, I think we all hope
that by next fall we’ll be able to provide all of our updated assessments in a typical fashion and format, in
person. Does anybody have experience providing assessment remotely and have any words of caution or
wisdom on the topic? Or thoughts or concerns? We are all doing this for the first time. Yeah, I think the
silence probably speaks volumes.
Heidi (00:40:13):
I think I can speak to that a little bit because I’m doing a fair amount of telehealth, and I do a lot of re-eval
stuff in there. Have a lot of patience with the families. Even you trying to talk to the kid or talk to the
parent about repositioning things. Like the term, “Turn it over,” or “Turn around,” can mean so many
different things.
(00:40:36):
And then giving them a list so that they know at least some of the things we’re going to be looking at so
they can have it dug out of the house. That’s really helpful.
(00:40:48):
And I usually, I ask somebody to be my camera person. Usually I’m on a phone or something and the
kid’s moving around and doing stuff. So I usually have the person stay close to the phone so that I can be
like, “Oh, move it up again. Move it down again.” And so one person is just in charge of that piece and
that’s been really helpful during the assessment time.
(00:41:10):
It’s not as bad as you would think, but you definitely don’t get as much objective data necessarily as you
would need for some tests. So it’ll be interesting as we go.
Chayah (00:41:29):
Thanks Heidi. I think you mentioned a list and you started to list off objects that the family might need,
materials, and what I went immediately to that I didn’t even think to mention but I think is so important, is
giving the family a sense of how long it will take and what will be expected of them. And also what you
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might be looking at, so that the family has a little more of a sense of why you’re asking the child to do
potentially strange activities.
(00:42:08):
And then also I think differentiating a little bit for families between assessment and treatment or service.
If they’re having a hard time with X, Y or Z, it’s totally understandable to want to step in or show them
how to hold the scissors, or help them, boost them up onto that step or whatever. But let them do it, which
I think-
Heidi (00:42:38):
Chayah, I wanted to add to that, have your other really rewarding activity ready so that if there is one or
two really difficult things that the kid really needs that motivator for, I can be like, “Oh, remember you
get to have that whatever afterward.” And then I always try to remind them to have a snack and go to the
bathroom before, because that can totally mess up your schedule if all of a sudden the kid has to go to the
bathroom and that’s not part of your assessment.
Chayah (00:43:10):
Yeah, thank you. That’s such a good point. In any setting, we want to make sure that the child is able to
show their best foot forward. That was my attempt at a PT pun right there. What? What did you say?
Pam (00:43:30):
I said, “Nice work.”
Chayah (00:43:32):
I thought you called me a dork. I was like, “Well, that’s true too.”
(00:43:40):
Thank you. Does anybody else have, whether I guess from experience, or just based on this conversation
or related experience, other thoughts about things we would want to add to the pre-assessment checklist?
Probably a lot of the same stuff as any direct service session, but probably even a few more things.
Lillian (00:44:15):
Hi Chayah and everybody. I just want to tell you that I watched this webinar by Brooks Publishing on
using their Transdisciplinary Play-Based Assessments online. And I think it’s a wonderful assessment to
use because it’s through observation of play and they have a lot of support materials, like that list of
things, how to get set up prior to. They’re just really organized. But you can also do it from videos that the
family share with you.
(00:44:50):
I’m just really uncomfortable with going along with the narrative that we’ll wait until the fall. [inaudible
00:44:56] when it comes to powerful entities like school districts and so on because there’s really no
evidence that anything is going to be better in the fall. Actually to the contrary. And right now our risk is
absolutely minimum. There are very few cases in the state. If we look at the polio epidemic, it was 10
year where life was on hold every summer and life resumed in the winter. So I would just caution into
waiting and not changing our practices for telehealth, because the kids need their assessments, they need
services.
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So the Brook Publishing, their Transdisciplinary Play-Based Assessment might be one way to go that is
not so hard and demanding as far as sending materials, and having a very standardized way of
administering.
Chayah (00:46:05):
Lillian, I think you said so many really important things and thank you so much for sharing that. I think
first, just to your point, I agree with you that I think we’re stuck in a limbo space of on the one hand
wanting to hope that we get to go back to business as usual, and like you said, on the other hand, not
necessarily having all that much evidence that that’s going to be the case. And so that’s personally why I
felt like it was important to bring up the topic of assessment, even if so many people have that function
currently on hold. I’d like to hear what other people think too on that topic, but my understanding is that
in a lot of cases it’s also coming down from Special Education directors, whether or not that’s something
that we’re engaging in.
Karen (00:47:13):
Lillian, can I ask you, is the play-based assessment the same one that was around in the ’80s? We were
using that a lot with Early Ed assessment, with the team assessment. It looks like the same one. Mary
Ellen [inaudible 00:47:31] I see is on the call. She may remember that as well.
Chayah (00:47:41):
I think that it-
Mary Ellen (00:47:43):
This is Mary Ellen here and I’m not sure I do. I actually was just trying to do a search and look for it.
Lillian (00:47:50):
So Mary Ellen, it’s by Tony Linder and it’s actually very, very modern and actual. Tony Linder did a lot of
research on play, the importance of play, not as just a context for therapy, but an actually outcome
measure or a goal of therapy, because that’s the occupation of children. It’s so important. So I’m teaching a
class right now to my third year students in physical therapy, and it’s just a one credit, Advanced
Concepts, so I’ve been reading a lot about it. And really think we need to get this assessment out of the
bookshelf and the closet and revisit it. It’s extremely well done.
Karen (00:48:38):
Good. And I noticed there was a 2 on the cover, so I was curious if-
Lillian (00:48:43):
Yes.
Karen (00:48:44):
… The one I’m thinking of may have been the first version.
Lillian (00:48:47):
Yeah, this one is… I’m trying to find the edition.
Mary Ellen (00:48:59):
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The one I’m looking at is 2013.
Karen (00:49:01):
Okay. Now this goes way back and if Ruth Dennis and Sue Edelman were on the call, they may… We
used it back in the ’80s and it was sort of the first time that we shifted from individual assessments to team
assessments, especially for preschool and kindergarten level children. We were moving away from that
developmental clinic individual assessment method.
(00:49:32):
And I also want to put a plug in for play. And you may want to go back even further in OT literature,
back to the ’60s and ’70s, you’re probably going to find a lot of articles on play.
Lillian (00:49:44):
Oh yeah, I’m going back big time.
Karen (00:49:47):
Great.
Lillian (00:49:48):
Yeah, and there’s even an assessment, a test of playfulness, by Bundy. You know Anita Bundy who is an
occupational therapist? And she’s at her fourth version, and I think the second version you can find in one
of the book of Occupational Therapy, if you Google, “Test of playfulness,” you’ll see which book you
need to buy. But she is on her fourth version, I think 2016, I saw that people are using for research. But
it’s really big. You’re going to have a lot of papers coming out in the coming years on play and play-based
assessments. But the play-based assessments covers adaptive behaviors, self-regulation, executive
functioning, fine motor, gross motor, speech-
Karen (00:50:32):
Communication.
Lillian (00:50:32):
assessment.
… vision, articulation. What else? Emotional/social communication. I mean it is the most complete
Karen (00:50:44):
It’s true, and I’m glad it’s coming back.
Phoebe (00:50:47):
Karen. I have to say I remember using it way back in the ’80s, in Massachusetts.
Karen (00:50:53):
Yeah, that’s good. And it’s good that things do come around again. We just have to keep them.
Lillian (00:51:00):
Yeah, and I was surprised that Lori Meyer, she’s a Special Education Faculty at UVM, and she has a class
in the fall that is basically teaching a student how to do that assessment.
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Karen (00:51:16):
Great.
Chayah (00:51:23):
Thank you. Yeah, the TVPA is really interesting. It’s a cool assessment. Lillian, do you know, is it
something that can be administered by any discipline, and is a curriculum-based assessment? Do you have
to be trained in it?
Lillian (00:51:43):
I think it would be better if you do it as a team. I would have some shortcoming in assessing parts that are
not of my domain. But I think you could make a case for collecting observations and then maybe pulling
somebody in to further assess at which level the child is on different skills.
Chayah (00:52:12):
Yeah.
Lillian (00:52:15):
But the data collection is not in silo, it’s like a play setting. You come up with play sets, if you will, as a
team and then the parents record them or you watch them synchronously, and then everybody’s pulling
their observations from the same play set. One is like a snack time. There’s some that are structured and
some unstructured observations.
Chayah (00:52:45):
The other thing that this makes me think about is really how useful observation-based assessments in
general are at this time. Even things like the HELP, they’re based on a combination of parent report and
assessment. So I think one thing that I would love for people to be able to think about is what tools do we
already have in our toolbox? I love the idea of using the TVPA. I also love the idea of taking the
assessment tools that we have at our disposal and recognizing that they also can be good enough. You
know what I mean? And we’re so used to doing these very involved hands-on assessments, and that also
things like the SFA, or the PEDI-CAT, they have a place, even though we’re not necessarily even
observing direct performance of the activities where we’re using parent report. But that has a high degree
of reliability and has a lot of value.
Lillian (00:53:55):
Yeah, I think especially when you think about eligibility for Special Education, and I’m a little bit
removed from that, but for example, if you use the PEDI-CAT you have some measures of adaptive
behavior. It’s a pretty complex report, but it’s normed and it’s standardized and so on, and so you might be
able to use that along with more of a curriculum-based assessment. If we have to go around the rules as
far as eligibility… Oh, I’m sorry. My phone’s ringing at the same time. And if we have to advocate for
changes to the rule to qualify for eligibility, and maybe we have to start thinking about that if it’s not
possible to assert an eligibility through some form of video assessment. It’s just I’m really not very
confident that the end of this is too close to us.
Chayah (00:55:00):
Yeah. I think that’s such a good point, and it feels like an important direction to move. Even if we’re
hopeful that we can return to some form of normalcy in the not terribly distant future, it still feels like
something important that we can continue to educate ourselves on is first of all, what assessment tools are
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standardized for use remotely because there are many. And I think that ultimately that’s probably going to
be an easier sell to Special Education directors then overhauling the rules. And I’m totally open to hearing
what other people think about that. But I think that if we can go to Special Education directors and we can
say, “Here’s a battery of assessment tools that we can offer. It’s beyond our authority that we can say that
we can standardize them and administer them appropriately from a remote setting.” I think that that’s
going to bolster the case for us to be able to engage in assessment remotely if necessary.
(00:56:19):
And I think that’s kind of my punchline with that. What I was searching for when I thought I was screen
sharing is another more extensive list of evaluation tools, assessment tools rather, that can be used
remotely. It is an OT list. If there are others present here from PT, or other disciplines, who have come
across or want to search for similar documents in their own disciplines, I just don’t necessarily have
access to all of those same groups and resources for other disciplines, but let’s bring those things together
because I think it’s better to be prepared and have that information in front of us.
(00:57:14):
Just checking in the… Oh, Emily, I don’t know how long ago she said this, but Emily also mentioned The
HELP, “There’s a 0-3 addition and a 3-6 addition of the HELP.” Thank you, Emily. Yeah. And there are a
number of tools out there. I think we may be limited in terms of the ones that we’re most comfortable
with, or most familiar with, but I don’t think we’re limited in terms of them not being out there.
(00:57:47):
So I want to make sure that we part ways in plenty of time to be able to rest our eyes before jumping into
this Town Hall that I think many of us are going to attend. I’m going to pause for one moment. I’m going
to ask if anybody else has anything else they want to say on the assessment topic, or add to the chat on the
assessment topic.
(00:58:16):
And failing that, I just want to open up the floor for a few moments if not more, and ask where people
would potentially be interested in going from here. Can’t necessarily make any offers about how that will
be facilitated or supported, but if there are certain subgroups or topics that people are interested in diving
into, or a certain kind of support that you could see potentially TRIPSCY as an entity offering in the
coming months or year, of course there’s so much unknown, but what would that be? Is there anything
that either you want to offer, or you can see other people offering or hope other people are offering at this
time?
Pam (00:59:04):
Chayah, I would say from looking at the chat that there is interest in further discussion about ESY, and
perhaps after the AOE meeting this afternoon that might give some more direction, but it sounds like an
ESY conversation would be welcome.
Chayah (00:59:23):
Thanks, Pam. Is that something other… I can’t even see everybody’s pictures. If you have your video on…
Oh, so many people have their video off. Okay. Do you want to add in the chat a “Yes” if that’s something
that would be interesting to you? Cool.
Pam (00:59:55):
Getting some yeses.
Chayah (00:59:56):
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Pam, you took the pulse.
Pam (01:00:00):
There were a few comments and some people who had to leave early commented that they would like to
hear more about ESY and talk about it some more.
Chayah (01:00:06):
Great.
Pam (01:00:07):
Yeah.
Chayah (01:00:09):
Okay. Well, I know that this school year is rolling to a close really soon. I’m thinking we could potentially
offer just to host another time and space that would be available for people to talk about the mechanics of
how they’re going to do ESY under the circumstances. Does it make sense to others to do it once again on
a Wednesday, potentially just to have one more event on a Wednesday? I’m looking at my own calendar
now. I’m not seeing-
Pam (01:01:06):
Yeah, Wednesday afternoon works well for some.
Chayah (01:01:09):
I’m thinking we can just stick with the same time and date we’re currently working with and hopefully
that works for as many as possible. Karen says, “Is there a way to have a timeline on putting together a
package on assessment that can be presented to AOE or Special Education Directors Association in the
fall?” That sounds like a big and interesting project.
Pam (01:01:42):
Can I say something?
Chayah (01:01:45):
Yeah.
Pam (01:01:45):
It might be the opportune time. If you’re an OT, you too could be the coordinator of TRIPSCY and
RIPSCY. If you have a strong interest in that, the Center on Disability and Community Inclusion, as you
may have seen in the listserv, has a OT position that just opened up. We’ve had Deb Sharp retired and so
there’s an opening. The job is a 10-month but full-time position. It is spending about two days a week on
the I-Team in the northern part of the state, two days a week on the Continence Project, and one day a
week coordinating TRIPSCY, which is double the time that Chayah has had this year.
Chayah (01:02:37):
Which is quadruple the time that Pam had the year before that. So my little TRIPSCY plug is that
TRIPSCY has a greatly expanded scope of work and funding for next year, which includes the possibility,
actually includes the directive in the way that we’ve written the scope of work, to bring in providers who
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have a deep passion and interest in specific topics and to be able to provide those to the state at a very
reduced or even free charge to the providers of the state. It is designed to be, as it is now, a service to
providers to help us all build capacity on a vast variety of topics. The really cool thing is that next year
we’ll be able to incentivize bringing other providers on. So also if you have a topic that you are really
jazzed to bring to others and you want to really build that up as a resource, TRIPSCY could be a place for
you to bring that topic next year.
Pam (01:03:45):
Karen said that she knows someone who’s applying who would also be great at managing TRIPSCY. So
that’s exciting, Karen. And if anyone is interested in that position or knows someone who might be, I’m
just going to put the listing of the posting. Sorry, my brain is getting addled from the heat. The posting is
right there.
Chayah (01:04:08):
Thank you Pam. Karen also said, “We should start end of August or early September. I know of someone
who’s applying for this OT job who will be wonderful to manage TRIPSCY list serve as well.” Karen, I
love this idea. I mean once we see the direction that school is going for the fall, which I think we won’t
know more about for a while, or we may feel like we already know, but I think that convening on this
idea of building up our resources and knowledge around telepractice. So everyone, keep your ears and
eyes open, post that kind of information to TRIPSCY and RIPSCY, or to RIPSCY, and let’s create a body
of knowledge on that particular topic because it feels like it could be really important in the coming
months.
(01:05:00):
As for a conversation about ESY, my assumption is that if we just wanted to put it out for two weeks
from today, that would probably work well. I will mull that over and I’ll put something out on RIPSCY.
Okay. I am also getting really hot and it’s not making my brain work super well.
(01:05:32):
Does anybody have any parting thoughts, words, concerns, another car to add to the train? Okay. So with
that said, thank you all for coming and being a part of this. Thank you for participating in this time
together. I know that it’s really been really informative for me as a provider, as a consultant. I’ve really
appreciated everyone’s input and those of you who’ve been willing to really speak up, it’s been awesome.
Again, we will have the recording with captioning. It will be on TRIPSCY as soon as it can be. The
resources and notes will be available as soon as I can put them out, which hopefully will be by the end of
the week or early next week.
(01:06:33):
If you would like your Certificate of Attendance, I will be making those all happen tonight. I finally
figured it out for all three weeks, so do not fret, if you haven’t gotten yours for the previous two weeks,
they’re coming. If you’d like a Certificate of Attendance, please put your name and email address in the
chat box before you sign off.
(01:06:53):
Karen says, “Let’s all go outside and do 10 minutes of gardening.” I might go jump in a sprinkler. And I’m
just going to stay on until other people are signed off. Thank you.
Pam (01:07:10):
Thanks everyone.
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Phoebe (01:07:14):
Bye everyone.
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